Category Archives: Career Engineering
When a Job Search Feels Wrong
It was hard not to get excited when a recruiter called with a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. She was looking for a corporate leader to oversee talent management for a global pharmaceutical company. The job description had my name written all over it. My experience and credentials aligned perfectly with the role's requirements. And the best part was the job was just three miles from my home.
While I was not looking to make a move, the opportunity and timing felt right. I knew I wanted to work for a leader I respected, someone I enjoyed being around and someone ambitious about setting goals, but reasonable in their expectations. Plus, I wanted a healthy work environment where the hours were more manageable than the 14-hour days I was putting in. And I wanted to work at a place where people liked each other and enjoyed being at work. But most importantly, it needed to make sense, financial sense.
As I investigated further, I wanted to learn more about the title, salary and the overall benefits. The title was noteworthy; as an associate vice president of talent acquisition, my role would align with senior staff. And while the bonus structure was not as rich as I expected, the base salary was double what I made, the 401(k) was more generous and it came with stock options, which I did not have with my current employer. In the end, it came down to money and prestige. So, after some serious consideration, I called the recruiter and threw my hat in the ring.
My first interview was with the hiring manager, the vice president of human resources. We spoke at length about my experience and the details of the role, and things seemed to be going well. After about an hour with each other, I felt confident about my responses, but I didn't feel entirely comfortable with the exchange. I couldn't tell if it was his personality, his communication style or if he wasn't sold on my candidacy, but it felt uneasy.
My next interview was with the delightful team I would be managing. There were 20 recruiters in the department with varying backgrounds, ages and levels of experience. The team was great; I enjoyed their humor, exchanging war stories and gaining their trust to ask some difficult questions. I asked them to describe the most challenging aspects of their job, and I asked them to describe the VP's leadership style. They were hesitant, but eventually, I learned that their work environment was less than healthy. They lived in constant fear of losing their jobs to contractors readily available, and as a result, morale was low. And sadly, they shared their doubts that anyone in the management role could make a difference. Disappointed but undeterred, I was committed to seeing the search through. A kinship had formed, and I knew I wanted to make a difference for this staff.
The last group I met with were members of senior staff, my would-be colleagues. I understood the pharmaceutical industry and its business model, but I didn't have enough knowledge about the state-of-affairs at the company nor a feel for leadership. Nevertheless, they were there to interview me. They asked thoughtful and direct questions to assess my fit with the organization. I must have done well because when it was my turn to ask questions, they were open and generous with sharing information. Their insight helped me better understand how my work would intersect with theirs and at what capacity. They were also honest in describing the administration as incohesive, which caused confusion among the staff and sent mixed signals about their priorities. The senior staff were delicate in the details, but I could tell I hit a sore spot.
The following day the recruiter called to tell me that I was selected as their candidate of choice. The job was mine if I wanted it! I expressed my excitement, but I also shared my concerns about the job. First, I told her about my meeting with the VP and that I couldn't tell if things had gone well. Next, I shared how much I loved meeting with staff and that I could see myself working alongside them but was worried that I would be unsuccessful in helping with their work conditions and lifting morale. The final concern I shared was that of leadership. I was nervous about the constant change in the administration and where that might leave me down the road. She took it all in and suggested that I meet with the VP a second time to discuss my concerns and see how I felt afterward. I happily agreed.
A few days later, I met with the VP again. This time, things got worse. He became cold and withdrawn when I brought up my questions and concerns. I assured him I could do the job, but I was concerned that I would be setting myself up for failure without more information. Our meeting ended when he stood up and abruptly asked, "Do you want the job or not?" At that moment, I went from nervous to frozen. I told him I appreciated the offer and he gave me a couple of days to think about it.
As a recruiter, I knew the answer. I'd seen it play out many times before only to have a candidate withdraw from a search that didn't feel right. But as a candidate, I fell into the trap of wanting a job so badly I was willing to lie to myself to make it happen. I tried to tell myself that the toxic environment was situational, when I knew it was systemic. I told myself I could work around the issue with the VP. I ran the numbers, and the increase in compensation would significantly contribute to my overall financial health. That was a big deal to consider, but it wasn't the only one.
A couple of days went by, and I finally called the recruiter to withdraw my candidacy. She wasn't surprised. All I could ask is how could a job be so perfect but not the organization?
Undoubtedly, there will be moments when you need to make difficult decisions that are in your best interest. For example, you might feel tremendous pressure to take a job that you're not excited about, but you don't have a choice; sometimes, you have to take what you can get. It's not a bad thing; it's how most of us got started in our careers. But with time and tenure, you can be more discerning about your options. Just remember, do not get stuck on the compensation alone. Yes, it needs to make financial sense, but unless the job in its totality makes sense for you, take a pause and make sure it aligns with your priorities personally and professionally.
I saw all the red flags and I heard that little voice in my head telling me to run, but I felt I owed it to myself to see the process through. And I'm glad I did. Despite feeling discouraged throughout the interviews and not hearing what I wanted, it wasn't until the last meeting with the hiring manager that I finally woke up and accepted what I already knew — this job was not for me.
If you ever find yourself at a crossroads when the excitement of a job opportunity turns to doubt, the right choice for you will come from within. Trust your instincts.
The Career Engineering series features the expert advice of Amy Rueda, a 25-year veteran of executive search, who has placed CEOs and C-suite executives across multiple industries and functional areas. Her passion for leading diversity initiatives that focus on change management and employee engagement is reflected in her portfolio of accomplishments. Amy studied political science and was born and raised in Los Angeles.
Email your career questions to connectfeedback@alumni.ucla.edu and Amy will try and answer them in next month’s issue of Career Engineering.
Career Engineering Articles
-
Navigating Job Loss and Rebuilding Your Career
The recent wave of federal layoffs has left thousands of professionals, many seasoned, accomplished and deeply valued in their organizations, suddenly without work. The abrupt loss has been more than a career disruption for UCLA alumni and others in similar positions — it has been a shock to the system. Job loss, particularly when it’s…
-
Career Anxiety and How Parents Can Help
As a 25-year veteran executive recruiter, I had the opportunity this summer to teach a career management course to UCLA recent graduates. It opened my eyes to some startling trends. A phenomenon that surprised me was the rise of "snowplow parenting." This is defined as a parenting style that seeks to remove obstacles from a…
-
Gen Z in the Workforce Part III
Part III: Shaping the Future Generation Z has emerged as a formidable force for positive change across various facets of society. They are having a transformative impact on the economy, artificial intelligence (AI), sustainability and social justice. As this generation enters the professional sphere, they bring with them a unique set of values, skills and…
-
Gen Z in the Workforce Part II
Part II: A Mental Health Discovery If you work with them, you may have noticed that the newest generation entering today’s workforce has some unique characteristics. In our last article about Gen Z in the Workforce, we discussed the business philosophies predominant among 22- to 26-year-olds, citing their application of cancel culture, preference for remote…
-
Gen Z in the Workforce Part I
Part I: Understanding Gen Z Philosophies Last summer, I had the privilege to teach a career management course for the Class of 2023, called The Classroom. The Classroom is a six-week program to help our most recent grads from UCLA transition from the classroom to the workforce. The sessions addressed the benefits of: As any…
-
Interview Strategies for Success
Landing a job, particularly your first, is nothing short of intimidating. The most challenging part of the process is the pressure to execute a stellar interview. This undertaking is not limited to those entering the workforce for the first time; it applies to everyone at all levels. Let's face it, interviewing is nerve-racking, especially when…
-
What to Know About Recruiters
Being contacted by a recruiter is one of the best feelings you can experience, personally and professionally. The experience of being acknowledged as a possible candidate often comes with feelings of accomplishment, recognition and pride. But are all calls from recruiters the same? Not necessarily. What varies are the types of recruiters that reach out…
-
What Steps to Take to Land Your Next Job
It's that time of year again when we revisit resolutions we've made for 2023. For those who have stuck with their goals, congratulations! Unfortunately, some of us didn't and feel guilty about breaking our promise. But the good news is that it's never too late to restart. For example, if one of your resolutions was…
-
Where to Work
After two and a half years into this pandemic, the workforce is redefining what constitutes the optimal workplace. For individuals seeking a greater work-life balance, the flexibility to work from home offers several health, financial and productivity benefits. For others, returning to the office offers distinct advantages in relationship-building and access to key resources. As…
-
Why References Matter
When a company begins to evaluate a final candidate for a position, they often do a thorough background check prior to extending an offer. Unfortunately, some candidates overstate their experience and don't realize they are putting their candidacy and reputation at risk. This is why references matter. Because they help validate the candidate’s achievements. But…
-
When a Job Search Feels Wrong
It was hard not to get excited when a recruiter called with a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. She was looking for a corporate leader to oversee talent management for a global pharmaceutical company. The job description had my name written all over it. My experience and credentials aligned perfectly with the role's requirements. And the best part…
-
Selling Yourself
Congratulations! You've applied for your dream job and made it to the interview stage of the process. However, preparing for the job interview can be stressful and dominate your attention when thinking through every possible scenario that could come up during your face-to-face interaction with the executive recruiter or hiring manager. The key is to…
-
Who Gets Hired and Why?
The ideal executive candidate is the sum of multiple variables. Yes, we expect the résumé to shine and the interview to be stellar, but what is the DNA of the ideal candidate? Integrity is in the genetic code of an honest, sincere and principled leader. It is an ever-present code of conduct that is noble…
Selling Yourself
Congratulations! You've applied for your dream job and made it to the interview stage of the process. However, preparing for the job interview can be stressful and dominate your attention when thinking through every possible scenario that could come up during your face-to-face interaction with the executive recruiter or hiring manager. The key is to have a strategy in place. Be mindful that there is a fine line between selling yourself favorably and selling yourself out of a job.
Have a Strategy
First and foremost, set goals and objectives for the interview. Then, focus on the specific points you want to make and use your time wisely to share your knowledge and proficiency. Interview questions can be philosophical and tactical, and it's your job to be an active listener and proceed with specific and informative answers that showcase your listening skills and your strengths and qualifications.
Let Your Soft Skills Shine
Focus on integrating soft skills as part of your answers by letting your passion, energy, and personality stand out. Soft skills can be hard to translate, primarily because many interview questions are hypothetical. You unintentionally challenge the interviewer to see you in a leadership or management role without well-articulated soft skills. One example and fundamental principle that will always stand the test of time is honesty. It's okay not to have all the answers to every question; providing accurate responses is testimony to your professionalism. It is both commendable and appreciated.
Use the Job Description as Your Roadmap
Please do your due diligence and re-read the job description carefully. Questions derived from the job description will be asked; come prepared to answer with concrete answers and examples. The job description is not only a marketing tool but also speaks to the desired traits and characteristics of the ideal candidate. The anatomy of a well-written position description will have helpful information about the company, details about the position and an overview of the role. In many cases, it is also the outline for most interviews.
Do Your Homework
Research and networking also play an important role when looking to impress the interviewer. Resources are abundant and readily available online; do your homework and watch it pay off. Simple research like a search on the organization's website or Google can provide important insight into its business model, mission and values. In addition, you can find a comprehensive list of their leaders, products, services, philanthropic endeavors, goals and objectives for the coming year. And, if publicly traded, downloading their annual report might have the information you can use to impress the interviewer.
Another valuable research tool is the human network. Tapping in to current or former company or industry employees is as easy as searching on UCLA ONE or LinkedIn. UCLA ONE is the largest online professional network of Bruins and LinkedIn is the largest professional network in the world. Finding the right person may provide you with details about the culture, environment and perhaps even information on the hiring manager to whom you would report. You are sure to find information on the organization's leadership and others who can provide indispensable insight.
Ask Good Questions
Most importantly, use this as an opportunity to sell yourself by asking well-thought-out questions and demonstrating your strong interest in the position. Here are some examples of questions to ask your interviewer or the hiring manager:
- Are you looking for someone who can serve as a change agent, or is this a role that requires someone to sustain and grow the department?
- Are there plans to reorganize, expand or shift priorities, and will it impact the area I would manage?
- Are there plans to launch an expansion of products or services? If so, where are they in the planning stages?
- What can you share about the financial health of the organization, and are there any liabilities or pending liabilities that could impact my livelihood or ability to do my job?
- What would I have achieved at the one-year performance evaluation that would earn me a stellar review?
The invitation to interview is a compliment to you and the work you’ve put into managing your career. The essential takeaway is that these tips help focus your attention on the details that matter. A well-developed strategy will incorporate comprehensive answers that include descriptors of your mastered soft skills. Research, networking and marketplace intelligence present you as a subject-area expert, and when matched with the details of the position description, you elevate their interest in you.
- Why is the position open? How long has it been open, and what are the circumstances regarding the predecessor's departure?
- Is there an internal candidate? If so, are they a finalist?
- Regarding your future manager, how would you describe their disposition?
- When under pressure, how does their demeanor change?
- How would you describe their management style, and is there a lot of turnover in their department?
- How does the organization celebrate success?
- Are there discussions underway about a possible reorganization or significant change to the department I would manage?
- Given what you know about the organization's culture and the hiring manager, do you see me as a proper fit?
- What are the imminent priorities as identified by the hiring manager?
- Is there anything I didn't ask that you think I should have?
The Career Engineering series features the expert advice of Amy Rueda, a 25-year veteran of executive search, who has placed CEOs and C-suite executives across multiple industries and functional areas. Her passion for leading diversity initiatives that focus on change management and employee engagement is reflected in her portfolio of accomplishments. Amy studied political science and was born and raised in Los Angeles.
Email your career questions to connectfeedback@alumni.ucla.edu and Amy will try and answer them in next month’s issue of Career Engineering.
Career Engineering Articles
-
Navigating Job Loss and Rebuilding Your Career
The recent wave of federal layoffs has left thousands of professionals, many seasoned, accomplished and deeply valued in their organizations, suddenly without work. The abrupt loss has been more than a career disruption for UCLA alumni and others in similar positions — it has been a shock to the system. Job loss, particularly when it’s…
-
Career Anxiety and How Parents Can Help
As a 25-year veteran executive recruiter, I had the opportunity this summer to teach a career management course to UCLA recent graduates. It opened my eyes to some startling trends. A phenomenon that surprised me was the rise of "snowplow parenting." This is defined as a parenting style that seeks to remove obstacles from a…
-
Gen Z in the Workforce Part III
Part III: Shaping the Future Generation Z has emerged as a formidable force for positive change across various facets of society. They are having a transformative impact on the economy, artificial intelligence (AI), sustainability and social justice. As this generation enters the professional sphere, they bring with them a unique set of values, skills and…
-
Gen Z in the Workforce Part II
Part II: A Mental Health Discovery If you work with them, you may have noticed that the newest generation entering today’s workforce has some unique characteristics. In our last article about Gen Z in the Workforce, we discussed the business philosophies predominant among 22- to 26-year-olds, citing their application of cancel culture, preference for remote…
-
Gen Z in the Workforce Part I
Part I: Understanding Gen Z Philosophies Last summer, I had the privilege to teach a career management course for the Class of 2023, called The Classroom. The Classroom is a six-week program to help our most recent grads from UCLA transition from the classroom to the workforce. The sessions addressed the benefits of: As any…
-
Interview Strategies for Success
Landing a job, particularly your first, is nothing short of intimidating. The most challenging part of the process is the pressure to execute a stellar interview. This undertaking is not limited to those entering the workforce for the first time; it applies to everyone at all levels. Let's face it, interviewing is nerve-racking, especially when…
-
What to Know About Recruiters
Being contacted by a recruiter is one of the best feelings you can experience, personally and professionally. The experience of being acknowledged as a possible candidate often comes with feelings of accomplishment, recognition and pride. But are all calls from recruiters the same? Not necessarily. What varies are the types of recruiters that reach out…
-
What Steps to Take to Land Your Next Job
It's that time of year again when we revisit resolutions we've made for 2023. For those who have stuck with their goals, congratulations! Unfortunately, some of us didn't and feel guilty about breaking our promise. But the good news is that it's never too late to restart. For example, if one of your resolutions was…
-
Where to Work
After two and a half years into this pandemic, the workforce is redefining what constitutes the optimal workplace. For individuals seeking a greater work-life balance, the flexibility to work from home offers several health, financial and productivity benefits. For others, returning to the office offers distinct advantages in relationship-building and access to key resources. As…
-
Why References Matter
When a company begins to evaluate a final candidate for a position, they often do a thorough background check prior to extending an offer. Unfortunately, some candidates overstate their experience and don't realize they are putting their candidacy and reputation at risk. This is why references matter. Because they help validate the candidate’s achievements. But…
-
When a Job Search Feels Wrong
It was hard not to get excited when a recruiter called with a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. She was looking for a corporate leader to oversee talent management for a global pharmaceutical company. The job description had my name written all over it. My experience and credentials aligned perfectly with the role's requirements. And the best part…
-
Selling Yourself
Congratulations! You've applied for your dream job and made it to the interview stage of the process. However, preparing for the job interview can be stressful and dominate your attention when thinking through every possible scenario that could come up during your face-to-face interaction with the executive recruiter or hiring manager. The key is to…
-
Who Gets Hired and Why?
The ideal executive candidate is the sum of multiple variables. Yes, we expect the résumé to shine and the interview to be stellar, but what is the DNA of the ideal candidate? Integrity is in the genetic code of an honest, sincere and principled leader. It is an ever-present code of conduct that is noble…
Who Gets Hired and Why?
The ideal executive candidate is the sum of multiple variables. Yes, we expect the résumé to shine and the interview to be stellar, but what is the DNA of the ideal candidate?
Integrity is in the genetic code of an honest, sincere and principled leader. It is an ever-present code of conduct that is noble and should be celebrated and rewarded. When composing your résumé, there is sometimes the temptation to amplify one’s credentials. However, your résumé is your calling card and says more about you than you might realize. A person of integrity will be measured when presenting their credentials, not overly modest, but accurate when describing their experience. Nothing turns a recruiter off more than an excessively exaggerated résumé. Integrity establishes the relationship between a candidate and hiring manager.
An accomplished person is highly skilled and well trained. Your level of proficiency, from novice to expert, is relative to the size and scale of your role and organization. For example, it is one thing to be an accomplished CEO of a company with 500 employees versus a CEO who oversees 50,000 employees. Regardless of the scope, they both require a significant experience level that only comes when mastering your craft. Time, patience and practice are the trinity to becoming accomplished.
Sound judgment and experience stems from the culmination of emotional intelligence gained by failure, repetition, courage and success, which helps form one’s decision-making skills. However, it is through knowledge and experience that the learning takes place. Experience is gained in good times and bad and develops the essential skills and behaviors that collectively create insight. Insight, along with factual evidence, is how experienced leaders learn to make informed decisions. When interviewing, you will have several opportunities to share the depth and breadth of your experience; don’t be shy, use this time to shine. You’ve earned bragging rights, just remember to corroborate your experience with tangible examples of success. Describe your qualifications, how they were attained and what value they offer. And remember, along with experience, organizations want to know that their leaders, above all, operate using sound judgment. Leaders demonstrate their strengths in several ways. Some are introverts, some are extroverts, and some are extroverted introverts. Regardless of their leadership styles, accomplished CEOs and executives recognize the importance of building relationships with employees and stakeholders by rewarding innovation and remaining nimble to unforeseen challenges.
What are the traits and characteristics of an extrovert? Extroverts are outgoing and enjoy social settings more than introverts. They don’t require a lot of downtime and they thrive around people. They enjoy being the center of attention and gain energy from being around other people. A few of the most famous and talented extroverts include personalities such as Steve Jobs, Oprah Winfrey and President Obama. Individually, they express their leadership style in alignment with their personalities, but collectively they are textbook extroverts.
Studies show that 70% of CEOs describe themselves as introverts. Take a moment and think about influential and successful CEOs who reflect the qualities of an introvert. Leaders like Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Elon Musk and Steven Spielberg are more reserved and manage quietly by utilizing influence and persuasion to motivate and encourage innovation. Introverts are highly successful and are known to be exceptional leaders.
Extroverted introverts, also known as outgoing introverts, are individuals who exhibit qualities of both extroverts and introverts. They can be outgoing when needed and enjoy meeting new people, but can only endure so much socializing. After a long day of work, they are more likely to retreat and prefer to spend time alone. This combination is a powerful commodity and quite desirable.
An exceptional leader is fundamentally layered. The qualities and characteristics vary from individual to individual and no two look alike, nor should they. Individuality and personality can never be duplicated. Leadership can be loud, quiet, learned and mastered. They may lead thousands, or a few, but the DNA is the same. A strong leader must have integrity, accomplishments, solid and tested experience, and sound judgment. Regardless of their management style, exceptional leaders inspire and influence others to follow.
The Career Engineering series features the expert advice of Amy Rueda, a 25-year veteran of executive search, who has placed CEOs and C-suite executives across multiple industries and functional areas. Her passion for leading diversity initiatives that focus on change management and employee engagement is reflected in her portfolio of accomplishments. Amy studied political science and was born and raised in Los Angeles.
Email your career questions to connectfeedback@alumni.ucla.edu and Amy will try and answer them in next month’s issue of Career Engineering.
Career Engineering Articles
-
Navigating Job Loss and Rebuilding Your Career
The recent wave of federal layoffs has left thousands of professionals, many seasoned, accomplished and deeply valued in their organizations, suddenly without work. The abrupt loss has been more than a career disruption for UCLA alumni and others in similar positions — it has been a shock to the system. Job loss, particularly when it’s…
-
Career Anxiety and How Parents Can Help
As a 25-year veteran executive recruiter, I had the opportunity this summer to teach a career management course to UCLA recent graduates. It opened my eyes to some startling trends. A phenomenon that surprised me was the rise of "snowplow parenting." This is defined as a parenting style that seeks to remove obstacles from a…
-
Gen Z in the Workforce Part III
Part III: Shaping the Future Generation Z has emerged as a formidable force for positive change across various facets of society. They are having a transformative impact on the economy, artificial intelligence (AI), sustainability and social justice. As this generation enters the professional sphere, they bring with them a unique set of values, skills and…
-
Gen Z in the Workforce Part II
Part II: A Mental Health Discovery If you work with them, you may have noticed that the newest generation entering today’s workforce has some unique characteristics. In our last article about Gen Z in the Workforce, we discussed the business philosophies predominant among 22- to 26-year-olds, citing their application of cancel culture, preference for remote…
-
Gen Z in the Workforce Part I
Part I: Understanding Gen Z Philosophies Last summer, I had the privilege to teach a career management course for the Class of 2023, called The Classroom. The Classroom is a six-week program to help our most recent grads from UCLA transition from the classroom to the workforce. The sessions addressed the benefits of: As any…
-
Interview Strategies for Success
Landing a job, particularly your first, is nothing short of intimidating. The most challenging part of the process is the pressure to execute a stellar interview. This undertaking is not limited to those entering the workforce for the first time; it applies to everyone at all levels. Let's face it, interviewing is nerve-racking, especially when…
-
What to Know About Recruiters
Being contacted by a recruiter is one of the best feelings you can experience, personally and professionally. The experience of being acknowledged as a possible candidate often comes with feelings of accomplishment, recognition and pride. But are all calls from recruiters the same? Not necessarily. What varies are the types of recruiters that reach out…
-
What Steps to Take to Land Your Next Job
It's that time of year again when we revisit resolutions we've made for 2023. For those who have stuck with their goals, congratulations! Unfortunately, some of us didn't and feel guilty about breaking our promise. But the good news is that it's never too late to restart. For example, if one of your resolutions was…
-
Where to Work
After two and a half years into this pandemic, the workforce is redefining what constitutes the optimal workplace. For individuals seeking a greater work-life balance, the flexibility to work from home offers several health, financial and productivity benefits. For others, returning to the office offers distinct advantages in relationship-building and access to key resources. As…
-
Why References Matter
When a company begins to evaluate a final candidate for a position, they often do a thorough background check prior to extending an offer. Unfortunately, some candidates overstate their experience and don't realize they are putting their candidacy and reputation at risk. This is why references matter. Because they help validate the candidate’s achievements. But…
-
When a Job Search Feels Wrong
It was hard not to get excited when a recruiter called with a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. She was looking for a corporate leader to oversee talent management for a global pharmaceutical company. The job description had my name written all over it. My experience and credentials aligned perfectly with the role's requirements. And the best part…
-
Selling Yourself
Congratulations! You've applied for your dream job and made it to the interview stage of the process. However, preparing for the job interview can be stressful and dominate your attention when thinking through every possible scenario that could come up during your face-to-face interaction with the executive recruiter or hiring manager. The key is to…
-
Who Gets Hired and Why?
The ideal executive candidate is the sum of multiple variables. Yes, we expect the résumé to shine and the interview to be stellar, but what is the DNA of the ideal candidate? Integrity is in the genetic code of an honest, sincere and principled leader. It is an ever-present code of conduct that is noble…
Our Proud Partners
